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mabfan[Edited to add this note: Spoilers below for the following episodes of The West Wing: "The Birnam Wood" (October 27, 2004; season 6) and "The Ticket" (September 25, 2005; season 7).]
When I first heard of the death of John Spencer, I naturally found the news sad. I never really got to know Spencer's acting work until The West Wing, on which he plays Leo McGarry. I loved the portrayal of his character, and wondered how much of himself he put into McGarry.
The question has taken on an eerie feel, though, since McGarry had an almost-fatal heart attack last season.
With Spencer's death, though, a new question arises. What happens to the story? McGarry is the current Vice-Presidential candidate on the show. The obvious thing for the writers to do would be to kill off McGarry and replace him on the ticket.
But for a moment, I had an uh-oh thought.
In the opening scene of "The Ticket" (9/25/05), the first episode this season, we saw a flashforward to three years in the future, when the Bartlett presidential library is being dedicated. And for a while there, I thought that Leo McGarry was in that scene. If that had been the case, then they couldn't kill off McGarry, as that would be a major contradiction. They'd have to find some other way to get him off the ticket and off the show. (I suppose a second, non-fatal heart attack could have done.)
But I checked the scene, and it turns out that my memory had been flawed. McGarry isn't in the flashforward. Nor is there any mention of him. Which kind of makes me wonder if the producers knew something about Spencer's health, and kept McGarry out of that scene just in case.
What do we know from that scene?
- CJ is married to Danny and they have a baby.
- Toby and the President might have a strained relationship; then again, it could be their shared reticence to show emotion. Also, Toby's teaching at Columbia.
- Kate has written a book. Note that she's standing next to Will Bailey.
- Will Bailey is in Congress, on Ways and Means.
- Charlie is alive. (Well, that's really all we know. That, and that Bartlett did something in Jakarta to get them talking.)
- Josh is the man of the hour, and the one who knows that the President is arriving.
Which makes me wonder. It's clear that Bartlett and the others are deferring to Josh for some reason. Now, it could be because he ran a successful campaign and got Santos elected --
-- or it could be because he's the Vice-President of the United States.
I guess we'll just have to see where the show goes from here...
When I first heard of the death of John Spencer, I naturally found the news sad. I never really got to know Spencer's acting work until The West Wing, on which he plays Leo McGarry. I loved the portrayal of his character, and wondered how much of himself he put into McGarry.
The question has taken on an eerie feel, though, since McGarry had an almost-fatal heart attack last season.
With Spencer's death, though, a new question arises. What happens to the story? McGarry is the current Vice-Presidential candidate on the show. The obvious thing for the writers to do would be to kill off McGarry and replace him on the ticket.
But for a moment, I had an uh-oh thought.
In the opening scene of "The Ticket" (9/25/05), the first episode this season, we saw a flashforward to three years in the future, when the Bartlett presidential library is being dedicated. And for a while there, I thought that Leo McGarry was in that scene. If that had been the case, then they couldn't kill off McGarry, as that would be a major contradiction. They'd have to find some other way to get him off the ticket and off the show. (I suppose a second, non-fatal heart attack could have done.)
But I checked the scene, and it turns out that my memory had been flawed. McGarry isn't in the flashforward. Nor is there any mention of him. Which kind of makes me wonder if the producers knew something about Spencer's health, and kept McGarry out of that scene just in case.
What do we know from that scene?
- CJ is married to Danny and they have a baby.
- Toby and the President might have a strained relationship; then again, it could be their shared reticence to show emotion. Also, Toby's teaching at Columbia.
- Kate has written a book. Note that she's standing next to Will Bailey.
- Will Bailey is in Congress, on Ways and Means.
- Charlie is alive. (Well, that's really all we know. That, and that Bartlett did something in Jakarta to get them talking.)
- Josh is the man of the hour, and the one who knows that the President is arriving.
Which makes me wonder. It's clear that Bartlett and the others are deferring to Josh for some reason. Now, it could be because he ran a successful campaign and got Santos elected --
-- or it could be because he's the Vice-President of the United States.
I guess we'll just have to see where the show goes from here...
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no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 05:00 am (UTC)i hate to ask you this, but it might cause others consternation as well.
if you could please put the spoilery bits under a cut, that would be really wonderful.
i'm very slowly working my way through West Wing (having just acquired Seasons 1 and 2 on DVD a couple months ago), and i've been trying to avoid hearing too much about what happens in later seasons...
thank you!
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 04:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 10:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-24 12:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 05:26 am (UTC)First, he's running the campaign and is already overstretched. He can't do both, and the only alternative people were mentioning to run the campaign was, well, Leo (and a reason Leo might have been able to and Josh wouldn't is that Leo's a known quantity, both as VP candidate and a former Cabinet secretary. A new Veep candidate will have to be very visible as the candidate given it's only about a month before the election and people will want to know who this new person is. And note that Leo very definitely turned it down, both out of consideration for Josh and it being too much work to do both).
Second, Josh is unqualified on three fronts to be VP, especially getting plugged in only a few weeks before the election.
1) He's a complete unknown nationally save for politics wonks. None of his experience has put him in the public eye at all. The campaign focus would shift to "Who is Josh Lyman?" which Santos and Josh shouldn't want; they don't have enough time to get back to the campaign before the election given they're coming from behind.
2) His experience has been running campaigns and chief of staff for a Congressman and deputy chief of staff (not promoted when Leo left) for the President. From a national perspective, that spins to Santos doing the equivalent of appointing Harriet Miers. The general public would not see any reason this man should be one heartbeat away from the Presidency, and he has no popular base of support to add to the campaign.
3) Seriously, would you want President Lyman? Per Bartlett, the reason he kept Hoynes as VP; "Because I might die". I can't see Santos thinking that about Josh.
As for how to handle the situation, I'd go with writing Leo out in terms of his making a physical or vocal appearance, or plugging in past footage/dialogue in very brief scenes. I'd now have the final show have him die right after the Inaugeration, and the final show is about the cast's reaction to both his death and the end of the Bartlett administration, something that only came about because Leo pushed Jed to run.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 04:06 pm (UTC)As for your suggestion, personally I think it would be difficult to stage an inauguration scene without Leo McGarry in it. But I like your idea for the final episode.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-24 12:58 am (UTC)The county is not ready for a Jewish Vice president on TV.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 06:34 am (UTC)The wife and I had a more interesting thought on how the writers would handle John Spencer's death though:
I'm guessing that Spencer's death has occurred in the vicinity of filming of episodes that take place right around the election. I have had a feeling for awhile now that they're setting up a 2000-style close vote, but that this would give the West Wing staff a chance to take an interesting moral high ground way out (unlike what actually happened in 2000).
With Spencer's death, it opens up a further possibility. Suppose the election stands with Santos having a lead over Vinnick, but one state in contention is too close to call. It could go into the House and be the usual mess, etc, although it still looks like Santos would win when all is said and done.
Leo McGarry's death occurs in the midst of all of this.
Santos reaches a hand across the aisle, and in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation offers Vinnick the Vice-Presidency. Vinnick is a different kind of Republican and he and Santos did get along when they were serving in their respective houses of Congress. They both realize they're a lot more alike in some respects than some of the people in their own parties. And they realize that cooperating would be better for the country than the mess Bush and Gore left us with in 2000. Rather than haul this thing into the courts and Congress, Vinnick could concede the state - and the Presidency - in exchange for the Vice-Presidency.
It could happen. We'll have to wait and see.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 06:52 am (UTC)On the other, there are very pragmatic reasons for Vinick to refuse. Traditionally, the VP is a very weak position, and Santos doesn't strike me as doing anything with his VP like Chaney is to Bush. Frankly, Vinick as VP doesn't really position him in much more power than he'd have as a defeated Presidential candidate (I'm not clear if he's still in the Senate, or if his term is supposed to be up this year and if so whether he's also running for re-election ala Lloyd Bentsen or not). And, more to the point, Vinick's old. Particularly if he wants the option of two terms, this is realistically his last shot at the Presidency. Being VP doesn't gain him anything unless Santos offers him real power nigh-unprecedented in the real world in the position.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 09:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 06:58 am (UTC)What my question is where are they in terms in filming.
If i had to bet they would pick Baker from PA or the current VP as the new running mate.
BTW where is Charlie this year? I like Dule Hill.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 01:06 pm (UTC)CJ and Danny get married! And have a baby! YEA!!!
-Kris
no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-18 01:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-19 10:30 am (UTC)Future of the WW
Date: 2005-12-19 01:26 am (UTC)It will be interesting to watch what will happen to our beloved show..
Re: Future of the WW
Date: 2005-12-19 02:44 am (UTC)Re: Future of the WW
Date: 2005-12-19 06:31 am (UTC)Re: Future of the WW
Date: 2005-12-19 11:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-19 03:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-19 11:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-19 03:37 pm (UTC)Do know if WW will continue after this season? I had thought it was still getting pretty good raitings.
John Spencer, The West Wing, and Speculation
Date: 2005-12-19 05:43 pm (UTC)There is only one person to replace Leo on the VP ticket, someone who is keen to get back and onto the 'Wing' team. His stint with !A Few Good Men" in London ended on December 17th so Rob Lowe (Congressman Sam Seaborn) would make an excellent choice
Re: John Spencer, The West Wing, and Speculation
Date: 2005-12-19 05:51 pm (UTC)Re: John Spencer, The West Wing, and Speculation
Date: 2005-12-19 06:35 pm (UTC)Re: John Spencer, The West Wing, and Speculation
Date: 2005-12-20 10:03 pm (UTC)The series will end with the inauguration of Santos and while the post party is going on a major crisis hits and the last scene is Santos rushing into the Oval Office and sittying behind the desk with National Security people and staff present and they start discussing what to do, the camera slowly pans away from the desk and the west wing theme fades in. Fade to black.
Or it ends with the swearing in and Jed & Abby riding away in a limo with the sappy version of TWW theme playing Bartlett reflects on his presidency (kind of like a 3 or 4 minute montage) fade back to the present as the limo pulls into Arlington Cemetary and Jed goes up to Leo's grave and thanks him, leaving a memento behind (a Santos-McGarry button).
Re: John Spencer, The West Wing, and Speculation
Date: 2005-12-21 12:29 am (UTC)