Harry Potter and the Jewish Dilemma [no spoilers]

[mabfan]

You'd have to have your head buried in the sand not to know that the new and final Harry Potter novel, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, is being released this weekend. As with the previous three books, the novel is getting a worldwide release of 12:01 am local time on the morning of Saturday, July 21. And, as usual, this leads to many bookstores sponsoring parties on Friday evening, leading up to the time when they can sell the book to eager customers. In Brookline, the merchants of Coolidge Corner are sponsoring Potterpalooza, and Pandemonium Books & Games in Cambridge is running a Hogwarts Alumni Reunion. Other merchants and bookstores in the Boston area are doing similar things.

If you're an observant Jew, however, this leads to an interesting dilemma. Because according to the laws of Judaism, you can't engage in commerce on the sabbath, from just before sundown Friday until about an hour after sundown Saturday. Which means that you can't buy your copy of the book until late Saturday night.

Now, I've known about this problem for a while, but it seems like the press just picked it up. A article in USA Today, 'Potter' book launch on Sabbath angers Israeli lawmakers, is one of many I found on the Internet about how many bookstores in Israel are planning to be open on Saturday morning to sell the book anyway. This is actually a violation of Israeli law, which requires most stores to be closed on Saturday.

(The article claims that the stores will open at 2:01 am local time for the simultaneous worldwide release, which confuses me, as I thought that each store gets to start selling at 12:01 am local time. For example, the UK will start selling the books while it's only 7:01 pm EDT here in Boston. But I digress.)

I have to admit that I'm not much concerned with how Israel is handling the issue, nor do I think there is anything anti-Semitic in a planned release on Saturday morning (even if the Iranian news service site also has an article on the subject, in which they refer to Israel as the zionist entity). No, my concern has simply been about getting the book for myself, a concern that wouldn't be such a big deal if it were not the last in the series.

For books number four and six, I waited until sundown on shabbat, and then bought a copy at a nearby bookstore. For book five, I ordered a copy, which arrived on shabbat, but I didn't open the package until after sundown. But when it comes to the final book, I decided to have fun with the dilemma and figure out all sorts of ways to get the book on the sabbath while not violating halakha (Jewish religious law).

So every sabbath, I've been going to my rabbi with many elaborate schemes of how I could get the book even on shabbat. I'd like to think that he's been amused by my proposed ideas. In some cases I was just kidding, like when I told him that if I don't buy the book on the sabbath, I'll be spending too much of the day looking forward to the end of it (which is not something one is supposed to do). In another case, I proposed having someone who is not Jewish acquire the book for me – but of course, that's not halakhic, since you're not allowed to ask someone who's not Jewish to violate the sabbath on your behalf.

The rabbi did suggest one possible loophole, which is that someone non-Jewish who acquires their own copy could conceivably lend their copy to you. But I didn't get that from him as a specific, real ruling, and he advised me that there could be halakhic problems with it as well.

I also proposed walking into a bookstore and sitting there, reading the book. That's a ma'arit ayin problem, but one might argue around it, since people now know that bookstores aren't just for selling books anymore. Given the preponderance of bookstore cafes and comfy chairs, one could argue that many people know that a person might visit a bookstore without the intent of transacting business.

It's been a fun intellectual exercise, but in the end, I know what I'll be doing. Saturday night, around 9 pm, Nomi and I will do Havdalah...and then head out to the bookstore, where I'll pick up a copy of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. And I'll bring it home, and read and read and read until I fade off to sleep.

And in the morning, I'll read and read and read until I reach the end.

Comments

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

In any case, it being Shabbat protects you from the main problem which forms the principal reason to make sure to get and read early: spoilers on your friends list. So long as you read book before reading flist, you have done the major thing.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

I may download my email, but my priority on Saturday night will be to read the book.

[ffoeg.livejournal.com]

Or you could download the version on the web tonight.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

How do I know that the version on the web is the real book? That's the question.

[fontosaurus.livejournal.com]

Okay, try this.

On Friday afternoon, travel to somewhere that's on Central Standard Time, but right near the border with EST. Set your watch to CST. Hang out.

When your watch hits 11pm, dart across the border, grab a copy of the book at a local bookstore. Then travel home.

When you walk in the door, notice the discrepancy between the clock on your wall and the one on your wrist. Adjust the one on your wrist.

It's a really crude form of "time travel"...

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

One of the arguments I presented was to say that since the book starts being sold in the UK at 7:01 pm EDT, I should be allowed to buy the book at 12:01 am EDT but pretend that it's only 7:01 pm the night before...

The problem with your proposal is that most places, the sabbath will begin even before 11 pm. What I need is a bookstore near the north pole...

[ladyrutile.livejournal.com]

not to mention that central time is an hour EARLIER than Eastern...so it would only be 10PM Central, not midnight.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

I pre-paid for my copy before I realized it was going to be released on Shabbat. My non-Jewish housemate may pick my copy up while he's picking up his own. Is that not okay?

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

I don't know if that's okay or not; that would be something to ask your rabbi.

[sethg]

Disclaimer: I am not a rabbi, etc., etc.

I think the operative word here is "may". If you ask your housemate to bring home your copy on Shabbat, you're asking him to do melakha on Shabbat for your benefit, which makes the rabbis nervous. (Although in this case, if the bookstore and your house are both within the Camberville eruv, all the melakhot involved are rabbinic, which may be significant.) If your housemate chooses to pick up your copy and bring it home, then that's his business.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

We are within the North Charles eruv, yes, as is the Harvard Bookstore.

I wish our shul had a rabbi ... :P

[lucretia-borgia.livejournal.com]

Wait...if you pre-paid for your copy, and you're in the eruv, what's the problem? You can carry a photo id with you. If you need to sign for it, carry with you a note you wrote ahead of time. (Call the bookstore to let them know what you're trying to do.) Maybe even have a slip of paper with your cc#, if that's what they'll require (on the latter, check w/ a rabbi; that may be too close to carrying money, given that it's possible to make a purchase with the number alone. IMHO the physical card is muktza, but the pieces of paper, as long as they're designated for use on shabbat, should be ok).

[magid.livejournal.com]

I've prepaid for books at this bookstore more than a couple of times, and just going in and asking for my copy was sufficient, no ID, etc, needed.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not as observant of the 9 days as some of my friends, but that was brought up as an objection during Shabbat discussion of Harry Potter. I was thinking more about the "finishing a business transaction" end of things. My housemate didn't end up going to get the books, so I picked mine up yesterday instead, so I guess it's all moot anyway. But I figured there had to be a number of halacha points to quibble about, since everyone has been fired up about it over the past week or two.

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

I'm not nor have I ever been as observant as you are, but I'm still chagrinned that this dilemma never even occured to me until you wrote about it here. I can certainly see where figuring all this out is part of the fun. Myself, I pre-ordered a copy on Amazon, so it should be at my door come Saturday, but I find myself thinking about attending a Potter release party at a local bookstore anyway, just for the fun of seeing people in costumes and enjoying the energy of the event. I may yet do it.

Like you, however, I'm planning to pretty much hole up with the book once it's here. I'm trying to be mucho careful about spoilers.

[carolf.livejournal.com]

I'm not Jewish, and I certainly do not know the intricacies of Jewish law. Furthermore, it's now too late for this option, but ...

I pre-ordered at Amazon sometime last year. It will arrive in my mailbox
on either Friday or Saturday -- I don't remember exactly which.

No business transacted (I've already paid for it.) No travel involved.
I'm just curious what your rabbi would make of that.

Mind you, I don't really mean to crow -- it's just that my husband will get to read the book first. We made a pact a while ago - he gets first crack at the Harry Potter books, since he reads faster than I do, but I get first crack at the Vorkosigan novels. So I have to crow about something to make up for the extra wait!

And no, I won't read any spoilers ahead of time. I will tape my husband's mouth, if I have to!

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

If the book arrives on Friday, there is of course no problem. But the books are supposed to arrive on Saturday. According to many Jewish sources one is not supposed to open a package or the mail on Saturday. There's also the question of taking possession of a new item on the sabbath that is not directly relevant to the sabbath.

[lucretia-borgia.livejournal.com]

The books, per Amazon's email to me, are supposed to arrive at folks' houses on Saturday by 7 pm. (Monday, if no one's there to receive it and the UPS guy gets ornery. I plan to leave a note.)

I'm not taking possession of the book, since I cannot. Nothing says you cannot handle that which you do not possess. However, I am reading (assuming Gideon gamely solves the package-opening problem for me without my asking, as I hope he will) a hefker item (hefker because arguably Amazon doesn't still own it, either) that is on my property, and which I will make a kinyan on as soon as shabbas ends. OTOH, perhaps my credit card transaction was sufficient to make a kinyan, in which case there's no problem there.

Here's hoping Gideon sees the package and can in fact get it open without too much mess. And doesn't all of a sudden decide to get religion. Bleah.

[jonbaker.livejournal.com]

Exactly why is it a problem to open the delivered package on Shabbat? Assuming your delivery guy knows you can't sign for it, which is true in Jewish areas like Flatbush.

1) the wrapper is not a permanent kli; once open, it's garbage.
2) it's not nolad, like a newspaper (printed as a "new thing" on the Sabbath)
3) it might be "erasing letters" in tearing the tape, but for English that isn't a name of God, that's at most rabbinic, so a shinui should take care of that.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

It's a problem to open the package on shabbat because my rabbi told me it was a problem. If your rabbi told you to go ahead and open the package, then I guess you're free to do so.

[carolf.livejournal.com]

When I saw your response to my suggestion, I felt stupid. I can see where opening a package might be a no-no because, while *you* are not engaging in gainful employment, your mail carrier is.

But then, I'm just guessing. I know a little bit about Jewish holidays and rituals (my best friend in school was Israeli). But the terms you folks are throwing around are mindboggling.

And I thought the Puritans were anal!

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

If the mail carrier isn't Jewish, and I'm not the reason why he/she is working, then there isn't that much of a problem there.

As for "anal," I think it would be more precise to say that we want to be as adherent to the letter and spirit of the law as we can. But that means interpreting the law, which is what discussion in the Talmud is about.

[sethg]

I thought the heterim involved with opening sealed packages on Shabbat only applied to sealed packages of food, whereas stricter laws applied to other goods.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

That's what malkaesther taught me, as well.

[captainsblog.livejournal.com]

A few others have raised the question I would have.

I'm Methodist by birth and choice, but my daughter grew up in the loving hands of two different JCC daycare facilities from six weeks to 12 years old, so I learned a lot of Teh Rulz.

Our original one was a real stickler for kashrut, more tolerant to minor violations of sabbath rules. The one here? Totally opposite. A parent could bring in a ham sandwich in a child's lunch with a doctor's note, but the sight of a thin dime from sundown to sundown was strictly out.

Despite that, they did allow prepayment for things like guest passes, towels, whatever you might need in those 24 hours.

So with no money being changed, and assuming the travel issue could be worked out, what?

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

The final issue is that one shouldn't take possession of an item on shabbat unless the item is specifically relevant for shabbat. Sadly, I could find no way to justify the relevance of the last Harry Potter book to the sabbath.... :-)

Potter on Shabbas

[samthereaderman.livejournal.com]

But don't you normally get mail delivered on Saturday? All those letter/junk mail and such get transferred to your possession, even if you wait until after Shabbas to open them.

Re: Potter on Shabbas

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Actually, many Jews leave the mail in their mailbox until after shabbat ends, so they're technically not taking possession of it.

[fibro-witch.livejournal.com]

I will be at Pandy books on Friday and will happily purchase two copies and hand one to you.

So your not purchasing it. Or you could pre purchase the book, say give Tylor the money before the sabbith starts and then he rings you up when he is allowed to.

I was raised Catholic, we can get around just about any religious law.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the offer, but don't worry about it. Like I noted in other comments, there's also the issue of not taking possession of an item on the sabbath that is not specifically relevant to the sabbath.

In honesty, the only way I could have the book for Saturday is if some bookseller was actually willing to violate the agreement with Scholastic (or was forgetful) and let me purchase one, full transaction completed, before the sabbath starts on Friday evening (which is roughly around 8 pm). And given how draconian the agreement is, I sincerely doubt that would happen.

[fibro-witch.livejournal.com]

Or, since I am not an HP fan, I can just give you my book as a gift, can you accept gifts. And then you have to promise to read it very very fast, and bring it to the Revere public library first thing Monday morning.

[sethg]

Hirhurim, one of my favorite Jewish blogs, has discussed this matter extensively: follow the links from here.

[jonbaker.livejournal.com]

Seth: Thanks for posting that link. It should be noted that Gil attended YU, and lives in frummie Brooklyn, where he runs a small publishing house for Jewish books. Opening Harry Potter books may be permitted in the hinterlands of Washington Heights and Brooklyn, but in Brookline, they have standards.

But seriously, Michael's right. CYLOR (Consult Your Local Orthodox Rabbi). However, given Gil's points, it might be instructive to find out on what basis Michael's rav forbids. Hinting to a non-Jew is apparently not a problem, as this is at most a rabbinic prohibition, nor is opening the package. And ordering in advance takes care of the "commerce on Shabbat" issue (the basis of which is so that the seller not come to write on Shabbat), since the transaction is completed with your credit card company on Thursday or Friday, when they ship the book to you.

I guess it was the absolute statement that it's a problem for observant Jews because of X, when for other observant Jews, it's not a problem, that rubbed me a bit wrong. It's not such a dilemma, if you take precautions and investigate the issues beforehand.

By the way, 2:01 in Israel is 12:01 in England; Israel is GMT+2. There may be such a unified unveiling time across Europe or Eurasia (or Eastasia?).

Saturday morning, sometime, the book will arrive. Debbie will open it and start reading. She will have to put it down around 12 so we can go to a neighbor's for lunch. After lunch, she picks it up, finishes it, then I start it. All that, of course, IY"H.

According to my cousin Dov Krulwich, it's too late to preorder, so you won't have that option. So you have to go with your original plan. Incidentally, he's a black-hatter (enlightened Chareidi, I call him) who lives in Israel, I think in the Beit Shemesh area, and he evidently has no problem with preordering the book. Then again, in Israel they probably don't deliver mail on Shabbat, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Jon, posting from Debbie's account.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Opening Harry Potter books may be permitted in the hinterlands of Washington Heights and Brooklyn, but in Brookline, they have standards.

If this is sarcasm, note that I do not appreciate it at all. It sounds as if you're telling me that I shouldn't have consulted my rabbi on a question of halakha. You may feel as if you know everything there is to know about Jewish law, and can posken for yourself; some of us would rather get it right.

I guess it was the absolute statement that it's a problem for observant Jews because of X, when for other observant Jews, it's not a problem, that rubbed me a bit wrong. It's not such a dilemma, if you take precautions and investigate the issues beforehand.

Did you even read my post? I quote from my post above: "Because according to the laws of Judaism, you can't engage in commerce on the sabbath, from just before sundown Friday until about an hour after sundown Saturday. Which means that you can't buy your copy of the book until late Saturday night." That was the point that had to be addressed. Does your rabbi allow you to engage in commerce on the sabbath?

[sethg]

I don't think accepting the Potter book on Shabbat counts as engaging in commerce, at least, not a form of commerce that's prohibited on Shabbat; you're not going to be handing over cash or signing a receipt. The Hirhurim articles apply the halakhot of receiving mail on Shabbat and opening packages on Shabbat, both of which apply whether the mailed package is a purchase or a gift.

[jonbaker.livejournal.com]

Did you even read my post? Yes, sarcasm, but instantly disclaimed:

I did say "But seriously, Michael's right - ask your rabbi">. It's his decision to make, not mine. However, discussing the issues involved is Talmud Torah in itself.

The engaging-in-commerce issue is irrelevant to a mail-ordered book, as far as I know. As I said, the reason behind "no commerce" is not that it is itself a melacha, but that it may *lead* to melacha. Does your rabbi say differently? And commerce does occur in limited situations, e.g. auctions and pledges [to donate to a synagogue, or otherwise] - because all involved that nobody is going to write the pledge down until after Shabbat.

You stopped at the sarcasm, and evidently read no further. For that reason, I'm sorry I said it - it's too much of an attention-grabber to let the other party read the rest of the note.

I didn't ask my rabbi because I don't see that it's necessarily a problem. Opening normal mail, yes - you have no use for a bill or a bank statement or an advertisement on Shabbat, so it's muktzeh. But a magazine, why not? There is an issue with newspapers in that they're usually printed within a few hours of delivery, hence on Shabbat, and are thus "nolad", something that just came into existence on Shabbat, and thus should not be used. But none of those apply here. A book or a magazine, as long as you don't limit yourself to reading only Torah materials on Shabbat (many do), I see no reason to regard it as muktzeh or nolad.

Taking possession - you already bought it, it's yours, and it's on your property - one's courtyard can acquire something. You've already acquired the mail when it came in the slot or into the mailbox.

* * *

How one asks one's rabbi is taken into account in getting an answer. Did you say something like "I assume I can't do this, but here's a potential rationale to allow it"? Or "Is it OK to do this on Shabbat, if this or that other factor may apply?"

The first is more likely to get a negative answer, since he knows you already assume that to be the case. Psak is a subjective thing - it takes into account the questioner and his situation.

[sethg]

I think the standards in question are those of Mesivta Tifereth Jerusalem, and of Rabbi David Feinstein, where our shul's rabbi got his smicha.

I haven't really been involved with these discussions with the rabbi (as lucretia_borgia says, we are relying on the fact that we have a minor in the house who might open the package without being asked, and if he doesn't, I think our backup plan is "suck it up and deal"), so I don't know exactly what the basis of his ruling is. I agree that it can be instructive to ask for details of his reasoning (lucretia_borgia has done this in other cases and he's been good about explaining things); sometimes when you know the rationale for a ruling you can give information about factual details that might convince the rabbi to change his mind.

Note that as the shul's mara d'atra and as the guy that mabfan asked the sheila to, if the rabbi feels that opening the Potter package on Shabbat would be against the spirit of Shabbat, even if it could be justified on the grounds of technical halakha, he is within his rights to advise mabfan not to do it.

[jonbaker.livejournal.com]

Um, I thought you were Seth of Seth&Karen, in Silver Spring? Evidently you're not, you must be in Brookline as well.

And as I said, how one asks the question influences what answer one receives. My rabbi-cantor friend says that he got smicha so that he would know how to ask a question properly.

[sethg]

It's moot now, of course (unless Rowling releases Harry Potter and the Irresistible Sequel next year), but I did ask the rabbi what the issues are with opening the Potterdämerung package on Shabbat. To my surprise, he said that the issue was whether, during ben hashamashot [twilight on Friday night], the package was somewhere that you could access on Shabbat without committing melacha de-oraita [labor that is Biblically forbidden on Shabbat]. This could be an issue, for example, if the warehouse storing the book was beyond the techum Shabbat [the boundary of how far beyond a settled area you are permitted to walk on Shabbat].

So apparently, for him it wasn't a question of commerce on Shabbat, contracting for delivery on Shabbat, or opening sealed packages; it was a question of muktzeh [objects which may not be moved on Shabbat].

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

I hope the book proves worth it!

[delkytlar.livejournal.com]

I can't speak to the religious dilemma, and do hope you work it out to your own satisfaction, Michael.

My HP release dilemma is purely logistical and situational. We've never gone to an HP release event, but since this is the last book in the series, I thought we'd try. However, on Friday, we are loading up the family to go for a long-postponed first visit to my brother's new home in upstate New York. This means that we will not be able to go to our local bookstore's HP event that night. I knew about the trip some time ago, and pre-ordered the book on Amazon. I took Super Saver Shipping because I knew I would not be home on Saturday to take delivery (though Amazon sends me at least two emails a week asking me to upgrade to the Next Day option, which would cost more than they are charging for the book itself.)

I any event, I thought it would be a nice idea to take my two children and my three nieces to an HP event in my brother's new area. My brother tells me now that his girls do not read HP, and have no interest in going to an HP event. So, it looks like we are going to miss all the fun that night, as well as having to avoid spoilers until some time next week.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Maybe you can take your own two kids to an HP event and leave the brother and his daughters at home for a few hours?

[delkytlar.livejournal.com]

The problems are that (a) I don't know their area at all, and would have to rely on my brother to get us whereever the event is (I am very much a city boy, and get lost easily on unnumbered/unlettered suburban and rural roads), and (b) I'd feel uncomfortable going out at such a late hour when we'll likely only have arrived a few hours earlier, and my brother would feel obliged to wait up for us. Personally, I think its something we can live without experiencing, but if I'd known we'd miss this one, I would have made sure we went when book 6 came out.

[lisafeld.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm going to read the book in the store at the release party, since I'm planning on buying a boxed set of all seven books in British release at a later date.

Alternatively, though, you could reserve a copy at your local store and pay in advance, allowing you to just pick up something you've previously paid for. I don't think it would be any different than staying in a hotel you had paid for pre- or post-Shabbes.

Interesting conundrum, though!